Age of Ultron: first watch thoughts

[inkvoices]

This film, I like it! Another!

Which is to say I’ll be watching it again on Tuesday night before I get detailed, but I’ve put together some first reactions, including my Clint and Natasha views. The non-spoiler reaction is: I enjoyed the hell out of this film :D

Splurge of first reactions: I came for the banter, and OH MY HEART, so much banter! Everyone was full of snark and sass and I loved that. All the hammer jokes! Locations outside of the US! (Wakanda is now on the map.) James Spader being brilliant as Ultron, and how both he and Vision are reflections of aspects of Tony in their own ways. Lots of characters and cameos for the win. (I hear they cut Loki from Thor’s vision, do we think Bucky could have been in Natasha’s?) Wanda and Quicksilver are great, and no, I did not see Quicksilver’s end coming. (The imagery of him and Clint lying side by side at the end; the reminder that anyone can die or be injured, the cost. Argh.)

Interesting implications for the future of the MCU. Interesting thoughts on the inadequacies of security and the pitfalls in trying to fight things that haven’t happened yet. Interesting explorations of why they’re all here, aided by Wanda’s visions – if Avengers was where they come together as a group then this is the film where they struggle with what being in this group means for each of them, and if this is the life for them.

The UK are still behind the USA with Agents of SHIELD, so please don’t spoil me, but if it doesn’t happen in canon I want the fic where Fury and Hill steal that Hellicarier from Real SHEILD.

There’s going to be an extended version. I am going to need this in my life :D

And getting my Clint and Natasha thoughts in order before I head over to be_compromised:

Clint is married with three kids and a farm. Natasha attempts to start a relationship with Bruce. (Yes, attempts. It does not take off.)

From a fandom point of view the things I want to say are:
- I think we’ve been building Clint/Natasha fanon for so long now that we forget how little we actually got of Clint in MCU canon.
- the Steve/Tony, Clint/Coulson, and various other ships seem to manage fine without any canon confirmation. We at least have confirmation of a past relationship in comics.
- Marvel films aren’t one-offs, they’re an on-going ‘verse and things can always change.
- Age of Ultron introduces some dynamics that actually I find fascinating and think it’s going to be fun for our corner of fandom to explore.
- in fanfic we can do whatever we want. Personally I don’t think Age of Ultron is going to affect my demon, space, and zombie AUs ;) And actually this new canon makes me want to write some canon compliant fic again, go figure.
- There’s always OT3. Always go for OT3 – make love, not ship wars!

So, we learn more about the Red Room and Natasha’s past and we get way more screen time for Clint. And they both get to be sassy, YAY.

It’s an interesting twist for those of us who’ve seen Clint as older/more mature/settled in comparison to a Natasha who’s still finding herself, because here we find a Natasha who feels she can’t have a family, that she’s a monster, and here we have a Clint who has a family and has brought ‘Aunt Nat’ into it.

I see the Bruce/Nat (do we call it Bruce/Nat if nothing happens between them?) as a continuation of the Steve/Nat that didn’t really happen – further exploration of her character through her interactions with others. If Winter Solider was ‘what do you want me to be?’ then Age of Ultron seems to be Natasha having decided what she is and therefore what she can and can’t have – that she’s a monster and can’t have a family, but can ‘run with’ that. Only by the end of the film there’s still that red in her ledger and she realises that she can’t walk away. That she may have joined SHIELD to escape another life – Red Room or freelance or whatever you like – but that this life, the Avengers, is now a choice. That maybe all her friends are fighters because that’s what she is too. That she’s exactly where she’s supposed to be. Making it great to see her taking a place beside Steve at the end there, a kind of senior Avenger and leader, and yet also the wistfulness of her letting go of not just being with Bruce but what she could have been with Bruce.

And let’s take a moment to reflect on Natasha not trying to lift the hammer. In the comics there’s an alternative universe where she does and become a Goddess and saves the day. Here, is she worried about not being able to lift it or worried that if she can what does that mean for her? Of course she might just not want to take part in the testosterone test ;)

I see Natasha’s character arc having been: playing roles in phase one, committing herself to ‘bargaining for one man’ and bringing a team together in Avengers, being exposed in Winter Solider by making the choice to be exposed (bringing down SHIELD, challenging what she’s been a part of, putting everything she is on the internet along with SHIELD), and now in Age of Ultron she’s starting to build herself back up from the ground up. I’m looking forward to what we get for Natasha next!

Clint gets emphasised as the human on the team, and that the team needs that. He gets to be the Avenger this time that shows they have things to lose – family, Pepper, Jane, they all have people. A lot of his arc is also the writing setting the audience up to think that Clint’s going to die at the end, but Clint being the human element in a film where we get Ultron and Vision is interesting. Clint is in the regeneration thing that Ultron says is what’s going to replace Ultron and then uses to make Vision. What does this say about evolution and technology? There’s thoughts in this film about legacy, children, and the future… Rewatch needed for proper thinky thoughts.

And I want to see more around that farm, the details like the target in the barn and the kid’s drawings and Clint being into handiwork and….

Laura: is she a SHIELD Agent or ex-SHIELD Agent? What’s the backstory here? What kind of woman welcomes the Avengers into her house? Hell, what kind of woman has Nick Fury staying in her house with her family?

And as for how Natasha ties into all this, I want to know about ‘Aunt Nat’. How does that work? Was it the kids or Clint who got her an arrow necklace? She seems to know Laura and the kids well, what’s the history there? They’re naming a kid after her!

And Nat is Clint’s ‘best friend’ and he’s so worried when she goes missing, and their morse code moment, and I still love these two :D

Are we going to have OT3 fic where Natasha eventually feels she’s allowed things like a family and realises there’s one that’s been waiting for her all along? Will something happen to Laura or Clint’s family in the future? Could, in some twist with Agents of SHIELD, Clint end up doing some kind of West Coast Avengers thing with Bobbi? What about the continuing adventure of Clint and Natasha BFFs? Oh the possibilities! And that’s only in the canon.

What’s everyone’s thinky thoughts?

Comments

[enigma731.livejournal.com]

I'm totally planning to write polyamory, just saying. And, like, I want to go back and write new fics of their history that include the family too. :D

[inkvoices]

Hell yes, I was hoping at least some people would go to both of those places :D

[enigma731.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I'll also continue to write some things where I ignore the new canon but...that's what ambiguous 'verse is for, right? I'm really excited about all of it, honestly. So many new things to play with!

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

I'm not really a polyamory person but if you write it, I will read it ;)

[enigma731.livejournal.com]

I've never written it before but this setup seems too perfect not to tbh.

Not peeking

[spyforaday.livejournal.com]

UGH! I don't see the movie until Thursday evening (double feature A1 & A2, yay!), so I'm not peeking at your review. And it's killing me!

That you "enjoyed the hell out of this film" gives me a ray of hope. While I really value your perspective on all things Avengers and especially Nat and Clint, I still kinda dread the thought of walking in the theater. *sigh* So, cheers to that little ray of hope you've shined on me to get through my week. :-)

Re: Not peeking

[inkvoices]

Good for you not peking :)

I will point out that it's not a review, more a splurge of initial I LIKED THIS BIT AND THIS BIT AND THIS BIT WAS COOL and then a bunch of thoughts on Clint and Natasha. Proper thinky thoughts later in the week when I've watched it a second time, so in time for when you see it *grins*.

I did enjoy it, a great deal. There's been negativity floating around, but sod that. It's Joss Whedon banter and Marvel goodness. Have fun on Thursday!

Re: Not peeking

[spyforaday.livejournal.com]

Ok. Wow. So, just back from seeing a double feature of Avengers and then AoU. So glad we did it that way. Fun movie. Great banter. Lots of little things, but I want to jump right into the Clint/Nat dynamic. One thing that struck me -- hard -- was Nat's line from the first movie when speaking with Loki: "Love is for children, I owe him a debt." Nat had to get him back for his family, for his children. She is so much a part of that family, loves those kids so much, that she had to make sure she got him back to them. Does that make sense? That's all I could think of when I saw how the kids interacted with Nat. (Still not sure how Loki couldn't tell he had a family, but whatev…)

Having said that, I'm not thrilled that the romantic Clintasha is no longer a possibility in the MCU. But, I can see their BFF relationship being a stronger connection to each other in the long run, which is a nice thought. If they were to have a romantic relationship, it would be easy to blow it up and we'd lose them completely. Honestly, I didn't feel a connection between Nat and Bruce. I didn't want to like Laura Barton, but I did. And I do hope she has a bad ass background.

That's my knee-jerk reaction. After another viewing (or three), I'm sure I'll have thoughts on things other than Clintasha. Ah, so glad I finally got to see this movie!!

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

So I haven't watched the movie yet (will on Thursday) but stoked to hear your review.

I am not one for polyamory in the traditional sense (I know, I'm super boring! Working on it!) but I do think if a spouse dies and the person finds new love, he doesn't stop loving the one who died of course. I have been doing a lot of research online about loving again after that happens, gee I wonder why? ;)

At any rate. I am anticipating all kinds of awesome fics in the near future. I already have a bunch of prompts for the next promtathaon and I haven't even seen the damn film lol

[inkvoices]

Both polyamory and Laura dying would be options. My research track was searching for more info on the Ultimates 'verse, since that's where this family of Clint's comes from, or at least is based on. Turns out in the Ultimates his family are all killed, but that's to do with Natasha and betrayl and NO THANK YOU. I look forward to reading all the different things people come up with though, I love seeing how people play with ideas differently :)

Oh promptathon, is it nearly that time of year again? LOL yeah, I ended up a mod on a Clint/Natasha comm before i'd seen Avengers so yep, know that feeling!

Enjoy your Thursday viewing!!!

[enigma731.livejournal.com]

I'm sure they're not gonna actually go the Ults route, though. Like...the entire point of MCU is to take elements of comics canon and spin them in new ways. But I also kinda want to read that arc now just...because...I guess because I'm a masochist. :p

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Funny you should mention that... After I became obsessed with Clint/Nat I googled them and the Ultimates storyline was the VERY FIRST THING I READ. I had no idea about comics so I assumed this was the only option for them and I had a very bad evening lol. So I have been feeling a lot of irony (among other things) these past couple of weeks.

What I would like to see in the movies (and 100% sure this is not going to happen) is Laura dying a very heroic death. Whether it's saving her kids or saving strangers or something... Just something amazing and awesome and heartbreaking.


But kids alive. Because i don't want Clint to be completely wrecked. And then finding love again with (surprise!) best friend Natasha.

When IS the next promtathaon anyway??

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Forgot to address a very important point you brought up- the mature, settled Clint vs the delayed "adolescence" (as Sugsrfey puts it) that Nat has to go through due to her history-- this has always been a THING for me. I love it. I think that's why the circumstances of this movie are easier for me to accept then some other people. I LIKE Clint having a family. I mentioned this before... The guy is 44 years old (assuming he is JRs age)... He just looks like he has lived a very full rich life. I LOVE that contrast with Natasha. Bruce had the older guy thing going on too but the difference is he is a mess due to circumstance too. I feel the same way about Bucky. I'm not saying Nat needs a man to help her figure out her life- it doesn't work that way. She needs to do it herself. But having this stable presence could mean SO MUCH. Just have too many feels about this.

[inkvoices]

YES. The differences between them are fascinating to explore (and then compare to the comics where Clint is often a train wreck, heh). I'm loving watching the evolution of Natasha whilst Clint has her back with his stability. (And isn't this new light on Avengers, because if Nat knew then about his family wouldn't they be in the equation of her getting him back? And the 'bargaining for one man' becomes and also for his family? And that she's LOST that stable influence, twice over because he's missing and altered by Loki? And... yeah, i'm going to need to rewatch more than just AOU lol.)

I love Ruffalo's version of Bruce, but I see him as having reached a fixed point, a roadblock, and until he gets over it he's stuck at a certain worldview and life point. I think he managed to climb on top of said roadblock during MCU, joing the team and all, but he's still not over it.

Bucky, woah, Bucky has a hell of a lot of things to figure out himself first before he gets anywhere near ready for a relationship. I'd like to see him showing up and being maybe a look at what Natasha would have been like in the early days and her emphasising wtih him, becoming friends, maybe even realising they share some Red Room in their past, but I can't see an MCU relationship between the two of them being stable any time soon. In the comics Natasha dates Daredevil a lot, which I've not seen the Netflix series but that could be an interesting twist as a future love interest.

I think I'm in it for the long haul, and happy for them both to have other relationships along the way.

Which is funny, because pre-AOU I was talking about this with people in the context of Clint having been with Bobbi before Natasha and how that would have made him grow up and be experienced, and yeah, no Bobbi but uncannily similar!

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Yeah so I am totally responding to this tomorrow when I set up my new keyboard to my phone. Be prepared ;)

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Ok responding to this before I respond to your thinky thoughts post. Also learned the hard way that if I type up a response on my phone then come back to finish later, it won't be here :P

I feel like I'm one of the rare viewers who watched this and can still totally see Clintasha happening. Now that's not saying I expect it bc I feel like you can't expect anything in this series anymore. But I can still totally see it happening if Laura doesn't survive the Civil War. Natasha saying Clint is her best friend reminds me of that comic panel when Clint says "you know you are my best friend, right?" And she kisses him. But again, I'm not expecting it. But I don't feel like the ship is destroyed as much as some others feel.

And the whole thing about Aunty Nat and how she loves the kids and the kids love her and she can't have kids on her own. I seriously love Laura. I do. And I love her relationship with Clint and Nat. But if something happens to her, the set up is almost to perfect. But I would take it :P

Anyway. Ok. I effin love mature/settled Clint and finding-her-way Natasha. I think this is the best thing ever. I like it better than the comics even though I love comic Clint. And Omg it's hard to type this with my almost 5 year giving me a running commentary about Micky Mouse Clubhouse in my ear. So apologies for me jumping all over the place. Ok with Renner I like this so much better bc he is obviously older and I think if he was acting like the young goofball he tends to be in the comics it just wouldn't play as well.

I think I love it so much bc I am getting up there (35 years old, 2 small kids) and I def see a difference between myself and those a decade or more younger than me. Now that's not the case with everyone bc I am immature and some younger folks are super mature but in general as I am getting older my perspective on things are changing. So I find a 40-something year old Clint Barton with an awesome wife and family to be more relaxed about a lot of issues bc he has been there, done that, and also his perspective on what's important and what isn't is gets more focused. Natasha on the other hand isn't a child by any means. But when he first found her she had to have been late teens or early 20s. And oh, also not allowed to experience life for herself fully. So to place her with this guy, or couple, or young family (who knows what stage they were at when she first came to SHIELD and when they were all introduced) is just fascinating. I just want to know everything about it, and what everyone thought and again, my mind can't help go there. In my head canon Clintasha will still happen. So it sets up an amazing bag of feels for me. Their relationship (all three characters) with each other and how things may change.

And uh sorry if this makes no sense at all in the slightest. I guess my take home point is I can totally immerse myself in platonic Clint and Nat and Laura -- but Clintasha is always at the back of my mind as still a possibility. The "best friend" and naming the fat baby ;) after her didn't halt my shipping at all- actually did just the opposite.

[franztastisch]

Man, I wish I could have had such a gut punch YES reaction. But mainly I was just relieved to have seen it. You did a very wise thing, getting off tumblr.

HOWEVER, now I have settled and can think about it more, yes. I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying. And as my ideas of different clints settles, I'll be even more in agreement. (For me, I found the Nat/Bruce thing easier to deal with than the Clint has a family thing - but I think that's partly because IRL I am very much a URGH CHILDREN person. I'm sure I'd love them if they were my own, but they're not, so I don't is my prevailing attitude. :P)

[inkvoices]

Yeah, I keep hearing from various people that tumblr is Bad. I miss the pretty pictures and the art, but I don't miss the time it takes to download and I can live without the Bad. I was spoilered for a few things, or half spoilered in that I put some things together, but I didn't lose my positivity of YAY NEW FILM :D

I'm going to need a second watch for proper reviewing purposes, so I'm sure I'll start finding some faults later - like Iron Man 3. I loved Iron Man 3, then second watch onwards I found a whole heap of issues with it, but I enjoyed it first so hey ho. I like children best when they're clean and returnable ;) The Bruce/Nat that doesn't happen is easier to write off than Clint being married, I think because married and three kids is a commitment, and we want him to be happy, so it's hard to wipe that out. But all the implications of that, of what that means for his character development and Natasha's with her being part of this family, and oh gosh, can we tie this into the comics with Clint's shitty background and...yeah, then I get all excitable *grins*.

[franztastisch]

Even if I do find a bunch of issues, I'll still enjoy it. I can't be bothered pulling things apart and looking for problems. I'd rather just... have fun. And if that means ignoring a few things, then sure, I'll do that.

Yeah. Happy Clint is a nice Clint. :D

[happilydancing.livejournal.com]

Hey, I have kids and even I am like "ugh kids". Lol. But I still like them for Clint, from way back when I read a fic (by shenshen maybe?) where he had an adult aged daughter. It just stuck in my head and MCU Clint was always a dad to me. I even wanted Skye to be his kid! Lol

But yeah, every time someone says they don't want kids I'm like "oh you are so smart." I love my girls but yeesh ;)

[franztastisch]

AlwaysLera's Home is a Fire? That's the only one I know where he has an adult aged daughter.

[findthesea.livejournal.com]

So now that I've seen the film I can fully comment on this, and, yes. I agree with pretty much everything, though you said everything much more coherently than me. I...really was fine with everything? Yeah, maybe not SO much the Bruce/Nat stuff, but the fact that Clint and Nat are so clearly BFF and "aunt Nat" and all that...god, I love it. I want to write all the Clint fic and Nat knowing about his life, which is so going to happen once I can get my thoughts in order lol. But I also get what you said about Nat's character arc and that's exactly why it works for me.

[inkvoices]

I've, um, now watched it two more times *whistles innocently* and just posted an epic amount of thinky thoughts that i've been working on all week, especailly on Natasha, because I always fix on Natasha, so that has some more on the Bruce/Nat that doesn't happen and why actually I have no issues withi it :)

I need to rewatch the earlier MCU films in light of the new info we have on Clint and Natasha, but I need to get as much writing done as possible that has an AOU focus first so that when I watch the others I don't lose it! Because I want to play with new canon! And also I have waaaaay too many Laura ideas, no, go away, I have AUs to finish writing *head desk*.

[endeni]

/Always go for OT3 – make love, not ship wars!/ - 100% agreed! Actually, they should make t-shirts with that motto, I'd totally wear one! ;)

[inkvoices]

I would wear this t-shirt also!